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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 April 2025
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Displaying 710 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

As I said, I am more than willing to hear from councils, stakeholders and politicians from any party if they think that there are things that we could do to support local authorities. As you know, much of the licensing is in the hands of our local authorities, in many respects, so that they can make decisions that are appropriate for their own communities, which is absolutely the right thing to do. If there are any suggestions for what we could do to strengthen councils’ ability to make decisions, I am more than happy to consider them.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

You are absolutely right to think of it in that way. The World Health Organization talks about the three best buys being availability, affordability and attractiveness, and those wine, cider, gin or whisky clubs—there are many different versions of the same thing—target availability and attractiveness, and there is a great deal of marketing for them. Alcohol is delivered to your home every month, six weeks or whatever the frequency is without any effort, which encourages more drinking. We definitely need to think about things such as that.

As I said, we will not shift our relationship with alcohol overnight by pulling one lever. Things will come along that change our habits. The pandemic completely changed almost everyone’s behaviour overnight, and we do not know whether those changes will stick. I do not recall anyone being a member of a wine club when I was growing up, but it is not uncommon to have online tastings and things like that now. The world has changed and we need to keep considering how our behaviour has changed and ensuring that the measures that we are using keep us in the healthy zone. We are not aiming for abstinence or zero alcohol in Scotland; we are aiming for healthy drinking and a healthy relationship with alcohol, and we need to keep an eye on how our behaviour changes.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Provisional Common Framework on Food Composition Standards and Labelling

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

In essence, there are different tiers of intervention. We expect much to be resolved at the official level, as it currently is. We expect that to continue and ministers to be able to be pulled in to work together to resolve issues, should that be needed. However, I do not expect that to happen frequently.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

That is a really excellent question. Last month, SHAAP published some interesting studies on a couple of areas of inequality. One was on LGBTQ+ people. Another, from the University of Dundee, looked at alcohol nurses in deep-end practices, which particularly target socioeconomic deprivation.

The evidence about LGBTQ+ people is that that particular community experiences more alcohol harm than others and uses alcohol in a different way. There are a number of reasons for that, but it is likely that being a minority group facing hostility and discrimination influences drinking behaviour. Historically, safe places for LGBTQ+ people were often bars and clubs. Society must reflect on that learning and think about how we can change that.

Most of the recommendations about making services inclusive were for those who deliver services on the ground. I absolutely support the work that has been done and the recommendations that have been made. I am keen for service delivery to reflect that learning.

I hear from a number of groups—not only from LGBTQ+ people—that services do not look as if they are for them. The study showed that most people perceive services as being for middle-aged heterosexual men. Women and young people feel as if they cannot access services. We must reflect on that. We have a problem with alcohol throughout society and we need our services to be inclusive and welcoming. It is hard for people to ask for help, so we need them to get that when they come in.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

You are absolutely right. I represent a constituency in the far north that is quite sparsely populated and has a long history of alcohol harm. I am very interested in that subject.

We definitely need to improve access to alcohol treatment in every part of Scotland, and we need to think about all the health inequalities that play out in our health system, generally. We must consider geographical inequalities, women, poverty and LGBTQ+ people. It is a problem that occurs all over Scotland and perhaps to a greater extent in some of our more rural populations. We are very keen to ensure that services are delivered in rural areas.

11:00  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Provisional Common Framework on Food Composition Standards and Labelling

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

Northern Ireland will automatically align with EU regulations, whereas Scotland will make a policy choice to align with EU regulations. I guess that that is the difference.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Provisional Common Framework on Food Composition Standards and Labelling

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

I think that there will be future discussions about that between Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government officials. We will definitely consider a possible approach to the post-implementation monitoring of frameworks, but I expect Parliament to be fully involved. Individual review processes are currently being developed, and I wonder whether Jennifer Howie wants to say a little more about that.

FSS is responsible for three of those frameworks, and it will collectively involve a number of departments across the UK, alongside consultation with stakeholders, about how to ensure that the process is well informed—cutting down on duplication of effort among all four nations but also making sure that plenty of evidence comes forward to inform decisions. I ask Jennifer Howie to say a little more on that.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

Work on reviewing the level of the minimum unit price is under way. That is important work, and we need to carry it out thoroughly to ensure that any change to the level has a robust evidence base.

Just as important as the review of the level of the minimum unit price is the need to ensure that minimum unit pricing continues as a policy. You will remember that, when the legislation was passed, a sunset clause was built in, which requires the Scottish ministers to lay a report before the Scottish Parliament as soon as is practical after the policy has been in place for five years. That will be on 30 April next year. We just passed the four-year anniversary of the introduction of the policy on 1 May. We are doing both of those reviews simultaneously, but the focus has to be on the five-year review, because there is strict legislation in place on the timetable for that.

There are other issues. We know that the pandemic has changed behaviour and the way we drink. We need to better understand that when we think about the minimum unit price.

We also have the cost of living crisis. We are keen that the minimum unit price should reflect affordability rather than simply cost or price, and the World Health Organization is clear that that should happen. Therefore, the fact that people’s household costs have increased substantially will have an impact on how we review the minimum unit price.

Finally, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 has changed the landscape. There was a lot of discussion as that legislation went through, and the Scottish Parliament did not consent to it. That may well have changed our ability to take public health measures in Scotland that are different from those in the rest of the UK.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

I have alluded to the level of complexity at this time. We need to have a robust evidence base as we review the minimum unit price. I am not going to automatically assume that we uplift it. However, as we review it, there needs to be a robust approach and a solid evidence basis to inform that decision. A lot has changed—a lot more than we anticipated.

It is attractive for us to consider some sort of automatic uplift, but I am not convinced. I talked about the challenge with linking it to inflation, which would not capture the issue of affordability. Inflation is going up, but so is the cost of living, so people have a lot less money in their pockets to spend on alcohol. At this time, we are spending a great deal more on energy and on the highest taxes since the 1950s. We need to look at affordability.

It is perfectly possible for us to do it, and to do it automatically. In order for it to be effective, it probably has to be reviewed on a more regular basis than it has been.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Tackling Alcohol Harms

Meeting date: 3 May 2022

Maree Todd

An obvious area would be in relation to labelling, for example. We are very keen in Scotland to have both the 14 units recommendation and calorie labelling on alcohol. Should we choose not to proceed with that on a four-nations basis and should England choose to do things differently, if a product was passed as suitable for sale in England, it could also be sold in Scotland. That would weaken our ability as a Government and Parliament to take public health decisions in and for Scotland. That was one of the well-rehearsed arguments at the time of that bill passing. That is an obvious example.