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Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the 11th meeting in 2025 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. Our first item of business is a decision on taking item 5 in private. Does the committee agree to take that item in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Our next item of business is the second of a series of evidence sessions on the skills delivery landscape. The purpose of the sessions is to consider how the current skills system is working and to identify the actions that are needed to support businesses and improve the skills supply chain, including for green skills.

I am pleased to welcome our panel of witnesses. Ian Hughes, who is engagement director for Scotland at the Construction Industry Training Board, joins us online. In person, we have Andrew Lamond, who is director of the Energy Training Academy; Susan Love, who is strategic engagement lead at the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants in Scotland; and Kellie Zdanowicz, who is a vice chair of the Scottish Training Federation. Thank you all for giving up your time this morning to give the committee evidence.

As always, members and witnesses should keep their questions and answers as concise as possible. I will use my position as convener to kick off the questions to our witnesses.

In recent weeks at the committee, we have discussed issues around apprenticeships quite a lot. I am keen to get your views or perception of how the apprenticeship system in Scotland currently operates. Would you like to see any changes to that system? I am sure that that is a straightforward and easy question to kick off with.

I am sure that we will come back to the important point about how the funding works at the moment. I bring in Murdo Fraser, who has several questions that witnesses have already anticipated.

Thanks very much for that, Kellie. I say to all the witnesses that they should please catch my eye if they want to come in on any questions that have not been directed to them.

I will pick up on a point that you made about SAAB, Susan. We have heard from several people that it has been very effective in engaging with employers. Were you surprised with the proposal to wind it up, to use your term? Are you clear about the alternative that is likely to be put in place?

That is an excellent point on which to end our evidence session. Thank you so much to all the panel for your insights, which are incredibly helpful. I have no doubt that we will use what we heard today in our future work.

I am pleased to welcome the next panel in our session on skills. We are joined by the team from Skills Development Scotland: Frank Mitchell, chair; Damien Yeates, chief executive; Gordon McGuinness, director of industry and enterprise networks; and Lynne Robson, head of evidence and impact. As always, I appeal to members and witnesses to keep questions and answers as concise as they can.

I will kick off with a question that follows up on one that I put to James Withers about the apprenticeship board. What is the view of Skills Development Scotland on the recommendation to wind up the board in its current format? I am keen to get your take on the point that James Withers made in the previous session, which he has also made in his review, about the need to widen the involvement of and the engagement with employers beyond apprenticeships.

I will hand over to Daniel Johnson for the final questions. I stress that I am not staging a walkout because Daniel is about to ask a question; I have the Conveners Group meeting with the First Minister upstairs in about one minute and 20 seconds, and I am keen to ask him questions about skills. I will leave our meeting for that reason, but I am leaving you in the capable hands of the deputy convener. Over to Daniel Johnson.

I will bring in Murdo Fraser to follow up on some of the points on apprenticeships.

You mentioned economies that have a much higher level of apprenticeships. As well as Switzerland and Germany, there are the Scandinavian countries and others. Did you take account of that when making your recommendations?

That is an interesting point. There was a lot of positive feedback on the delivery of apprenticeships, and there was a desire for there to be more of them, given that the level is still below what it was before Covid.

One of the key messages that we got from our visits was the importance of engagement with employers when it comes to influencing the apprenticeship landscape. Industry representatives were surprised by your recommendation to wind up the Scottish apprenticeship advisory board, even though your report recognises the excellent work that it has done on influencing the shape of apprenticeships in Scotland. You propose a structure of regional and national workforce boards that seems quite complex and convoluted. Why not harness that valuable contribution from employers that support the board and build on what was undoubtedly seen by them as a strength, with cross-sectoral support?