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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 April 2025
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Displaying 3042 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2, which is the main item on our agenda this morning, is further consideration of the report “Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”, which was produced jointly by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission.

Before we get to that, though, I declare an interest as the convener of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers—RMT—Scottish parliamentary group.

I welcome our witnesses. We are very pleased to be joined by Fiona Hyslop, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport. Alongside the cabinet secretary are Alison Irvine, the chief executive of Transport Scotland; Fiona Brown, the interim director of transport strategy and analysis at Transport Scotland; and Heather Cowan, the head of climate change and just transition for Transport Scotland. We are also very pleased to welcome Councillor Gail Macgregor, who is the leader of Dumfries and Galloway Council and environment and economy spokesperson for the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. It is in that capacity that she joins us today. Alongside Councillor Macgregor is Robert Nicol, the chief officer for environment and economy at COSLA.

We have a number of questions to put to you but, before we get to those, I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

So you disagree with the Auditor General’s conclusion.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

You do not accept the findings; you simply accept the recommendations.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

The report that was published in January this year by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission for Scotland says of the Scottish Government that there has been

“a lack of leadership”,

which has

“resulted in minimal progress against the demanding policy intention.”

I invite Gail Macgregor to tell us whether COSLA accepts the findings and recommendations of the report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that answer. You said that you had been in post from 2022 onwards. I do not know whether Mr Nicol was around in 2020—

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I ask the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, to put some final questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I do not know whether the cabinet secretary has a train to catch.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. In the interests of time, we will move on to questions from Colin Beattie.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

We have also been debating whether the sale of Scottish Bus Group took place in the 1980s or the 1990s. I think that it was the 1990s when the bus companies were sold off, but we can check that in due course.

Thank you very much indeed for giving us a very full evidence session with some very co-operative and helpful answers to our questions. We look forward to seeing delivery plans, measurable milestones and the monitoring arrangements set out in a transparent form, so that we can understand what progress is being made. As a committee, we are always very keen to get data and analysis and a transparent view of how decisions have been made and what the governance arrangements are, so I have no doubt that we will follow those up.

I thank the Transport Scotland representatives, Heather Cowan, Fiona Brown and Alison Irvine, and the COSLA representatives, Gail Macgregor and Robert Nicol. Cabinet secretary, thanks to you for shouldering most of the burden of the answers that were called for this morning. Thank you very much indeed for your time and your input.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes. Thank you.

11:15