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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 April 2025
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Displaying 928 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Has anybody phoned them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Because you said earlier that it is “a last resort”, and then you changed your mind to say that it should never be used. Why did you change your mind?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Okay. It was pretty stark evidence, and if I was the minister, I would be straight on the phone and I would want to know why the 15-minute timetable was used as a dodge to make sure that there were no exclusions, because a 15-minute timetable with no wraparound support is a dodge. Why did you not phone them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Right. There were a lot of words there, but I was really just asking this. You did not seem to be aware of what the Promise said—I think that was pretty obvious to everybody.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

The evidence that we have had contradicts that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

We have had evidence from some senior people in the social work service, as well as from care-experienced young people. This very week, on Monday, we had a session with care-experienced young people who told us about this.

Ben Farrugia from Social Work Scotland said:

“If someone seeks support but there is not a crisis, we cannot get to them.”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 4 December 2024; c 60.]

In my constituency, I had a case in which a young man’s family were pleading for a long time for early intervention, and the case eventually ended up in crisis and a secure unit because the intervention was not provided early enough.

On Monday, we heard that, if a young person has been in crisis but has moved on from it, social workers are encouraging the family to say that the person is still in crisis, just to get the basic level of support.

Those are three examples from three well-grounded people. Why do you say that it is not a problem?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Minister, you said in your opening comments that we are “on course”, but, looking at the figures, I do not think that we are. We are way behind. We are five years into the programme and eight years on from the start of the review, but we are just talking about setting up these bodies and having these plans. Surely you cannot say that we are on course.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

Minister, on secure units, the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland wrote to you on 20 February. She was very concerned about what was described to her as “cobbled together provision” because of insufficient capacity in the system. She also highlighted a “two-tier system” in that, if you go through the courts, you are likely to get a place, but if you go through the hearings system, you are not.

In the commissioner’s letter, she asked you three questions ahead of your meeting with her on 13 March. Are you able to give us the details of the answers to those questions? Do you want me to go over what the questions were?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

She asked:

“How many children in each of the last six months have been unable to be placed in secure care when a hearing authorised the placement and a CSWO determined that it was necessary?”

That was the first question. Do you want to deal with that one first, and then I can come to the other ones?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

The Promise

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Willie Rennie

But that has not happened.