The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
The Official Report search offers lots of different ways to find the information you’re looking for. The search is used as a professional tool by researchers and third-party organisations. It is also used by members of the public who may have less parliamentary awareness. This means it needs to provide the ability to run complex searches, and the ability to browse reports or perform a simple keyword search.
The web version of the Official Report has three different views:
Depending on the kind of search you want to do, one of these views will be the best option. The default view is to show the report for each meeting of Parliament or a committee. For a simple keyword search, the results will be shown by item of business.
When you choose to search by a particular MSP, the results returned will show each spoken contribution in Parliament or a committee, ordered by date with the most recent contributions first. This will usually return a lot of results, but you can refine your search by keyword, date and/or by meeting (committee or Chamber business).
We’ve chosen to display the entirety of each MSP’s contribution in the search results. This is intended to reduce the number of times that users need to click into an actual report to get the information that they’re looking for, but in some cases it can lead to very short contributions (“Yes.”) or very long ones (Ministerial statements, for example.) We’ll keep this under review and get feedback from users on whether this approach best meets their needs.
There are two types of keyword search:
If you select an MSP’s name from the dropdown menu, and add a phrase in quotation marks to the keyword field, then the search will return only examples of when the MSP said those exact words. You can further refine this search by adding a date range or selecting a particular committee or Meeting of the Parliament.
It’s also possible to run basic Boolean searches. For example:
There are two ways of searching by date.
You can either use the Start date and End date options to run a search across a particular date range. For example, you may know that a particular subject was discussed at some point in the last few weeks and choose a date range to reflect that.
Alternatively, you can use one of the pre-defined date ranges under “Select a time period”. These are:
If you search by an individual session, the list of łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees will automatically update to show only the łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees which were current during that session. For example, if you select Session 1 you will be show a list of łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees from Session 1.
If you add a custom date range which crosses more than one session of Parliament, the lists of łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees will update to show the information that was current at that time.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 162 contributions
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
As I say, “ordinarily resident” is a legal concept that is understood. I noted the concerns that Police Scotland raised. I would be interested to know whether Police Scotland feels that there is an alternative definition that would address its concerns. The concept is fairly well established, and I do not know whether there is a way of defining it in the bill any differently from what is set out in the explanatory notes and policy memorandum, which I think make the policy intent clear.
That is another area where I would be happy to reflect on any proposed changes. However, the fact that the “ordinarily resident” requirement sits alongside a requirement for people to be registered with a GP probably gets around the concerns.
I understand where Police Scotland is coming from because it engages more often with the criminal law, and perhaps that is where some confusion arises, but I am fairly comfortable that that concern has not been raised by others and that the concept is pretty well established and understood.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
I was interested in those exchanges. To go back to Ms Mochan’s questions, I note that that element might well fall more appropriately into guidance. However, the self-administration element is an integral part of the process.
It is worth reflecting not so much on the differences between the bill that I have introduced and the bill that is being considered by Westminster but on the fact that, in other jurisdictions that have similar legislation, very often, the medication is dispatched to the patient and the medical professional is not present when the medication is delivered.
I am happy to look at whether further refinement of that is necessary. It is an important safeguard that the medic is there, not least to ensure that a final assessment of capacity and intent is made.
There is a feeling that an individual may wish, in their final moments, to have a degree of privacy. How you manage that while ensuring that there are safeguards is probably a question to reflect on further. As I have said, the safeguard that is in the bill seems to be robust; it is absent from other jurisdictions, which does not seem to be a problem, but that is for those jurisdictions, rather than me, to justify.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
As you will be aware, the schedules to the bill are effectively the forms for this and other aspects of the reporting requirements. It is important that death certificates reflect the underlying progressive advanced terminal illness that gave rise to the application, as well as the fact that medication had been administered to allow for an assisted death. For clarity and transparency, both those things need to be captured, which is what the schedules to the bill set out.
From my initial discussions with the chief medical officer, I recognise the legitimate concern that there may be some sensitivity about the way in which the information is expressed and the distinction between suicide and assisted dying, which goes back to an earlier point. The chief medical officer and his colleagues helpfully suggested that codes are used for registrations that may allow for that information to be captured in a way that respects and acknowledges the sensitivity of what we are discussing.
I am keen to explore that further, but it is important that we understand who is accessing the option of assisted death, what conditions are involved, when people are accessing it and their sociodemographic characteristics. We need as much information as possible—anonymised, of course. As we might touch on later, it will be crucial to report on and understand the picture of how the legislation is working in practice. There are the annual reports, which will feed into the five-year review that is also set out in the bill.
If we look at other jurisdictions, we see that there are a lot of similarities in who is accessing assisted dying, the reasons why they are doing so and the demographic profile, but to my mind it is absolutely essential that we gather information in Scotland. In fact, the only element of my proposals that changed between the initial consultation and when I brought the bill to Parliament was in respect of tightening up the data-reporting requirements that were envisaged. For public confidence, and for the confidence of patients and medics, the more robust those requirements are, the better.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
I do not think so. It is difficult to know on what basis I would try to develop a different approach to the financial memorandum. Earlier, we discussed whether it would be an opt-in or an opt-out model, which I can see having a sizeable bearing on the costs. However, on the basis of assessing the likely take-up and the associated costs, recognising that we are talking about patients who are going to be in the health system already, we are talking about a lot of the training being training that is already routine and delivered. It might need to be adapted, but it is certainly not a case of a standing start. It is also fair to say that there will be training models and modules that are available in other jurisdictions that would help to inform the training.
You cannot have a lift-and-shift approach, because the health and care system here is very different from those in Australia and the US, but at least they provides pointers to how you would deliver this. As I have said, I think that the financial memorandum remains a reasonable assessment of the likely costs.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
Thank you, convener. I apologise for the state of my appearance. When cycling to the Parliament this morning, I hit a pothole and the bike went from under me—that is not an attempt to play the sympathy card with the committee, but it is certainly a reminder of the value of wearing a cycling helmet.
I will start by declaring relevant interests. I receive funding for an additional member of staff from three permissible donors: Friends at the End, Dignity in Dying and the Humanist Society Scotland. That support is currently for one day a week. The Humanist Society Scotland also funded the development, maintenance, domain cost and hosting of a website that I have used to publish materials relating to the bill, and Dignity in Dying paid for the costs associated with my visit to California last year as part of a cross-party delegation of łÉČËżěĘÖ that met various organisations and individuals in relation to the state’s End of Life Option Act. I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests for further details.
I introduced the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill in March last year, following the usual member’s bill process and supported by the non-Government bills unit. The bill’s aim is to allow mentally competent terminally ill adults in Scotland to voluntarily choose to be provided with assistance by health professionals to end their own lives. It sets out eligibility criteria and processes for assessment, all of which contain, I believe, appropriate safeguards. The bill also includes requirements for data gathering, reporting and review.
The bill is the culmination of years of campaigning and work by individuals and organisations, including current and former members of the Parliament. Proposals and bills were previously introduced on the issue by Patrick Harvie, the late Margo MacDonald and Jeremy Purvis. I thank all those who have been involved in seeking a change in the law on this issue and who have supported me.
I am acutely aware of the weight of responsibility that comes with leading a bill on this issue, and of the responsibility that rests on every MSP. We owe it to our constituents—whatever their views—to consider and debate this issue thoroughly and respectfully to ensure that any bill that is passed is appropriate, safe and fit for purpose. I know that that responsibility is one that the committee has taken seriously, and I thank you for your detailed and robust scrutiny to date.
I appreciate that the committee has faced difficulties in taking oral evidence from people who will be most directly affected—that is, those with a terminal illness. However, I know that the committee received a large amount of powerful written testimony in response to its call for written evidence and that written testimony was also received in response to my consultation in 2021.
As members will be aware, the fundamental reason why the bill is before the Parliament is a belief in the need to give terminally ill adults more choice and control over their end of life and the means of avoiding the existential pain, suffering and symptoms that are often associated with terminal illness. It is worth emphasising, however, that the bill’s provisions will relate to a relatively small number of people each year.
I have paid close attention to the evidence that the committee has received. I have heard the support that has been expressed by many witnesses and I have also listened carefully to the concerns that have been raised by others. I am aware of areas of the bill that have attracted particular focus, such as the age at which assistance can be accessed and how capacity should be defined and assessed. I will continue to listen to views on those points and to consider whether the bill requires amendment.
Another area of focus has been the definition of terminal illness. The bill requires a person to have an illness, disease or condition that is worsening, that will continue to worsen, and that is at an advanced stage. The illness must be one that a person will not recover from and that is expected to result in their early death.
I do not believe that the definition should include reference to a prognosis period, and no strong case has been made for that. I remain confident that the definition gives clear effect to the policy intent, which is to capture terminally ill adults in the final stage of their illness.
I also listened carefully to views about the assessment process, and believe that the safeguards in the bill are sufficiently robust: a person must be deemed eligible by two doctors acting independently, and both doctors will be able to refer to specialists for their views on that particular terminal illness and on capacity. Involving other relevant practitioners, where appropriate, is also an option.
Regarding the end-of-life process, my policy is that the life-ending substance must be self-administered. I acknowledge that there have been some concerns about that but, as the committee has also heard, a variety of options may be available to support self-administration.
In all those areas, the approach that I have taken has been to achieve what I consider to be an appropriate balance between ensuring access to assistance in a timely fashion, within a manageable process, and ensuring that appropriate safeguards are in place to protect people—including those who may be vulnerable—as well as to respect the right of practitioners to choose not to participate.
I do not underestimate the sensitivity of the issue or the significance of making the proposed change. However, as the committee has heard—and given what we know about the experiences of those who endure a bad death despite the best efforts of palliative care or of those who feel forced to take matters into their own hands—doing nothing and keeping the status quo has consequences. We can, and must, do better, and the bill provides us with an historic opportunity to do so. I thank members for their patience and look forward to answering their questions.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
In relation to interaction with UK responsibilities, the other matter, which gains less attention than the medication, is that of the regulation of professional bodies. However, similarly, that would need to be addressed in order for the fully functioning process of assisted dying to be put in place. That is not to say that the bill as it stands is not competent or that it cannot go through the full scrutiny process and be passed by the Parliament.
I can understand why the committee, łÉČËżěĘÖ, the wider public, and those with an interest in the matter are keen to have a clear understanding of how the powers are to be exercised. That would give us confidence as to how the bill would work in practice. I do not know whether Dr Ward wants to add anything on the specifics of the regulation of professional bodies.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
The fact is that there are two practitioners, acting independently of each other, making the assessment of both terminal illness and capacity, and they will have the option, where it is felt to be necessary, to refer to a specialist in relation to either the terminal illness and/or the person’s capacity. Those safeguards go well beyond the safeguards that are in place for many, if not all, other treatments that are available to patients.
Ultimately, whether or not we agree with the choice that an individual makes, if they meet the eligibility criteria, it would be unreasonable to deny them the opportunity to make that choice and activate the provisions that are set out in the bill.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
I am highly delighted that you have asked me that question. With regard to the finance committee’s letter to you, the thing that confused me a bit was the weight that was attached to the suggestion that Canada would be a more appropriate model. The point was certainly raised by one or two of those who gave evidence, but even a cursory scrutiny of the different models in place in Canada, as compared to those in Oregon and Victoria, would give you a pretty definitive answer as to why Oregon and Victoria were used.
I used both of those places because they used the terminal illness and mental capacity model, which was adopted in Oregon in 1996-97 and then more recently in Victoria, as the first of the Australian states. That means that we have probably the largest data sets on who is accessing the choice—and when, how, and so on—and we do not have to rely on an understanding of other demographic factors, or on whatever may be at play in the US, but not in Australia. Therefore, I think that it was a good comparator. No two assisted dying laws anywhere in the world are the same, but those two laws reflected the models that are most closely aligned to the bill that I have introduced and they give us the largest data set.
The eligibility criteria in Canada are far more extensive than the eligibility criteria in my bill, so it is difficult to see why you would use that as a model to understand who would access assisted dying and how, were it to be introduced in this country. I was slightly confused—not by the fact that that has been raised by witnesses but by the fact that the finance committee appeared to attach more weight to it than I think was justified.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
As with capacity, the assessment in relation to coercion is made routinely by medical professionals, albeit in other contexts but still relating to treatment and care options. There is probably an argument for adapting the training that medics receive to reflect the context in which those assessments would be undertaken. However, the General Medical Council has set out very clear guidance on how to assess whether coercion is taking place. It has also set out very clear guidance on assessing domestic abuse and controlling or coercive behaviour.
Therefore, guidance is already in place, but I accept that it might need to be reviewed and an assessment made of whether changes are required, given the change in the law that the bill would introduce. However, I am fairly confident that an assessment of whether there is coercion can be made.
I would also observe that, at the moment, the point at which we assess whether coercion was involved happens post-mortem. We know that those who are facing what they feel is a bad and undignified death often take matters into their own hands. There might well be other instances in which coercion is at play, but, because the individual patient cannot have that conversation with their medic or other family members when there is coercion, that information does not emerge and the conversations do not happen. Information might emerge only after somebody has taken their own life.
I understand the concern about coercion, but my bill will put in place protections that currently do not exist for many people who are in a very vulnerable state near the end of their life.
10:45Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 February 2025
Liam McArthur
The perception that those in the disability community are overwhelmingly opposed to a change in the law is not borne out by the evidence that the committee will have heard from Professor Colburn at the University of Glasgow. His fairly comprehensive research points to attitudes in the disability community and the international evidence on how assisted dying is accessed. Polling consistently shows that support for a change in the law to allow for assisted dying is every bit as strong among those in the disability community as it is in the population at large, at the mid-to-high 70 per cents in the main.
I understand the concern that people in the disability community often feel that their lives can be devalued, that access to the rights that they have is not realised consistently or that there are rights that they still do not have. I stand in solidarity with them with regard to improving that situation, but we do not improve it by denying terminally ill adults the right to an assisted death when they choose it. It would be wholly intolerable for somebody with a disability who had an advanced progressive terminal illness and mental capacity to be denied the same access as an able-bodied person to the choice that is set out in my bill—people in the disability community would rightly be up in arms in such an instance.
All I can do is offer the reassurance that having a disability alone does not make you eligible to access an assisted death—you need an advanced progressive terminal illness and mental capacity to be able to do so. If you have a disability as well, I see no reason why you should not be able to access an assisted death in the same way and, if further support is needed in order for you to be able to access it, so be it. As I have said, I think that the disability community broadly recognises that, which is why polling consistently shows very strong support for a change in the law.
10:30