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There has been a great deal of discussion about the broad range of people who have an interest in the bill. We have heard about the ability of people to sit on a board at the age of 16. We know from the correspondence and other submissions that the committee has received that there is huge interest in this area.

The people who sit at the heart of the bill are children and young people. They are the people who will be assessed and whose lifetime chances will be dictated by the doors that open and close between the end of what we call formal education and their university or college years.

We are now discussing a learner interest committee, the provisions on which require to be amended to ensure that children and young people—the very learners who are interested in this matter—will be on that committee. It is disappointing that that is the case in a Parliament that passed the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Act 2024 and a Parliament in which members have spoken on many occasions about the importance of lived experience and the challenges that our young people and children face.

Amendment 226 is a simple two-line amendment that would ensure that children and young people are represented on the learner interest committee. That does not mean there should be a potential further requirement for those children to be undertaking, or have recent experience of undertaking, a qualifications Scotland qualification, because I know that a significantly large number of children undertake no qualifications and their input might be interesting and incredibly valuable.

It is important for many, many reasons that we address the challenge—as it seems to be for this Scottish Government and Parliament—to open up and welcome being required to give young people access to decisions that are being made about them. Not only would they be listened to, but they would be at the table when decisions about them are being made.

I welcome that intervention and whole-heartedly agree, which is why I referred to the challenge that is posed by restricting it to those who have recent experience of undertaking qualifications. That person who stays quiet at the back of the class and knows how to turn in on themselves in order to avoid confronting challenges or being asked difficult questions is the very person who should sit on a learner interest committee, as they can say why it is challenging.

The committee’s format, and the outreach to young people, have to be appropriate. It cannot involve sitting around in a committee room such as the one we are in and saying, “Well, what do you think of it?” That is a challenge, but we have the pedagogical and social skills to interact and engage with young people to get the very best from them. Hopefully, their contribution will be more than just five seconds—it might take longer than that to make it happen, but it is important that we listen to them.

The requirements relating to regulation of educational qualifications and public sector governance are alternatives in your amendment, rather than a build-on.

Unusually, at stage 2 proceedings—I will not say uniquely, but it is certainly rare—an opportunity has arisen for consensus on a route forward, if not on a destination. It would be helpful if space for that was created by all of those who have lodged amendments in this group. Does the member agree with that?

We are perhaps developing a skill at stage 2, which might benefit the whole of the Scottish Parliament. I welcome the proposal, the understanding that the Scottish Government is open to that discussion and the support that Ross Greer offers.

It is a complex picture. There are groups that will feel that they have been deliberately excluded when, in fact, what has occurred has probably been more to do with drafting and concentrating on other groups. The ability to return to look carefully at that is very important.

To go beyond amendment 226, I am very concerned about the framing of the definition in amendment 120—Ross Greer’s other amendment. I do not have a vote, but if I had, I would not be able to support amendment 120 because, notwithstanding the advice that others in this room have received, it poses a fundamental challenge.

However, in respect of the proposal to reconcile amendments 119 and 226, it is certainly sensible to come together with a recognition that children and young people need to be represented on the committee and in an appropriate way. Given the emerging consensus, I will pause on that point.

Your proposed new paragraph (b)(v) contains the phrase “respond appropriately”. What do you envisage as the test of appropriateness? Is it public opinion, or the opinion of committees or Parliament, or the Scottish Government?

I am grateful—

That makes for a much more simplistic platform—although that does not mean that it is not beneficial—on which to build services for all young people who engage with educational establishments, where we can define the duty of care. As Katy Clark has said, that is the minimum standard, and we can look above that. For people in institutions in particular, the proposal makes the playing field far easier to understand, given the various and differing types of students who engage at different stages in their life and at different stages in their development, which I think is very important, too.

It seems to me that the very strong purpose that sits behind Katy Clark’s amendments also rests in the fact that there are some young people in educational institutions for whom there is already a duty of care, simply because of their age.

I declare an interest with regard to my former employment in education.

Given the interesting contribution from Ross Greer and the openness from the cabinet secretary about discussions, is this not perhaps a situation in which, if none of the amendments were moved, that would facilitate the reaching of a conclusion at stage 3 that might bring with it the urgency that is seen outside this place to rectify the problem and provide a timetable in which all parties together could perhaps seek a solution?