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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 986 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

That was helpful. Andrew, do you want to come in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

Some cross-cutting work has been done—for example, the committee has looked at issues around interpretation services in relation to refugee asylum seekers—but there is a wider conversation to be had about all that, and it is useful to bring that to the fore.

My final question is about resources. We cannot get away from the fact that implementing the public sector equality duty takes money, staffing and people. Reference has already been made to the challenging backdrop against which much of this work is being done. Do you agree with the assessment of many public bodies that have responded that resourcing will be a huge issue that will have to be looked at directly, along with public sector organisations, to understand what the existing capacity might be and what will be required in the future?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

Nicky, do you want to add anything?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

You did, indeed. We heard that. Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

It is important to include in an audit framework people who have lived experience of requiring such communication. I am sure that they are involved at some point in the process, but perhaps they could be involved in a more formal way to say whether something is working and why.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

Thank you. That has helpfully touched on my final point. The East Renfrewshire Council submission spoke about

“capacity, resourcing, timing, practicality, and limited ... data about the range of ... requirements”

for people. The Scottish Women’s Convention said that public bodies will need to be properly resourced to do a lot of this work. I can see folk nodding. I get the sense that, alongside guidance, there will probably need to be a degree of increased resource. I am taking the nodding as meaning that that was a fair comment.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

Does anyone else want to come in on that point before I ask a final question?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

I am quite interested in inclusive communication and the Government’s revised approach to assisting listed public authorities with embedding inclusive communication in what they are doing. What do you think about the Government’s revised approach? How do you feel it is progressing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

Good morning. I am particularly interested in the Scottish Government’s revised approach to inclusive communication and the embedding of inclusive communication within the listed public authorities. As an opening generic question, what are witnesses’ views of the duty, the revised focus on it and how it is progressing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Paul O'Kane

In the previous evidence session, we had a discussion about whether the Government could be clearer on what best practice and expectations should be. I referenced working with people who have a learning disability, where the challenge is often the agility of a public-facing service to provide what is required. For example, in the criminal justice system, interactions with police can often be very challenging, because it is a fast-moving environment. The interaction is very different, particularly when legal matters are involved. I appreciate that there are processes in place in law, such as for appropriate adult services and that sort of thing, but how do we become more agile, so that those things can be made available as standard?

In the public health space, the pandemic probably taught us a lot about agility in relation to getting information out to as wide a group as possible and not allowing people to fall through the gaps, but many people might feel that they were missed. Could I hear reflections on that from Nicky Page and John Dawson?